Sunday, January 2, 2011

Atheism and sexual self-contradiction

I don’t mean to pick on this Lousy Canuck, I just kind of randomly came across his blog while seeing what the atheists were up to these days. But I found a good launch pad for discussion concerning atheism’s basis for morality. Justin writes in this post here that "... we should all just have sex the way we want with the types of people we want and *enjoy* it, because enjoying it makes it awesome." But in an earlier post he writes concerning pedophilia that "... we have empathy for other human beings, and we understand that as children sexual advances would empirically harm if not destroy a child’s psychological state, it seems obvious that we’d endeavour to protect these children from these acts with or without some deity’s say-so."

How does the atheist square this circle? Now, I don’t mean to suggest that the Lousy Canuck, Justin, supports pedophilia, but rather that his embrace of atheism does not comport with his rejection of pedophilia. If, as Justin says, we should all just have sex the way we want with the types of people we want and enjoy it, then why shouldn’t people have sex with children? On the basis of the Christian worldview, we can make sense of our rejection of pedophilia, as we believe in universal, invariant laws of morality based upon God’s character. But if you’re an atheist, how do you account for universal, invariant laws of morality – concerning sexuality, for example?

Perhaps Justin would say that the sex has to be consensual. Agreed. But why? Says who? Or why should the atheist care about "a child’s psychological state?" To what universal and unchanging standard does he appeal to make his case? Or, why for the atheist is pedophilia wrong even if the child consents to it? If atheism is true, and when you die and I die that's the end and everything is forgotten because you're dead and everyone else will die and that will be their end, then why should anyone care about children? With what part of what Justin says would a pedophile disagree: "... we should all just have sex the way we want with the types of people we want and *enjoy* it, because enjoying it makes it awesome."? Reading it in that light makes me sick, but this is where atheism takes you, dear friends.


Jason Thibeault said...

a) My name is Jason.

b) the sex-positive post was written by my wife Jodi.

c) Her intention in writing it is to counter a horrible meme that says that you shouldn't be satisfied with your partner unless they have a huge penis or gigantic pendulous breasts.

d) Atheists dislike the idea of pedophilia because children are vulnerable, and it is in human nature to protect vulnerable members of our species. They are not sexually mature enough to make an informed consenting decision, and therefore they are not "consenting adults", and therefore do not count as someone you can "have sex with and enjoy it because sex is fun". It has nothing to do with objective morality, because all morality is subjective. Just look at all the commandments you're ignoring in the old testament because they're supposedly not applicable any more. That is the very definition of subjectivity.

e) You really ought to stop pointing out motes in other people's eyes when theists have logs in their own. There are more important things to be outraged about than atheists claiming sex should be good while at the same time saying sex with kids is bad -- such as the rampant pedophilia going on in the Catholic (and now Protestant) churches.

I'm probably not coming back here. If you want to continue this discussion, take it to my blog. I consider the link there and accusation that I support pedophilia to be a hit-and-run, so I'm okay with making a hit-and-run in return.

Ben Zvan said...

Wow, you have a really ridiculous point of view. What I read here tells me that the only reason you're not a paedophilic, rapist murderer is because your god says it's wrong.

My first problem with that is that a single book is a lousy basis for morality. My second problem with that is that I've read the old testament and your god doesn't always say it's wrong.

George David said...

@ Ben
It is a point of view that is based on absolutely no facts, what do you expect?
If you can point to one point in that whole post you would like to defend, please do so.
You got every single fact wrong to create your premise. That is really hard to do, even the most ignorant opinions usually have at least ONE verifiable premise.
Is it irony if a Christian writes a morality post in which he breaks the 9th Commandment? I think so, Peter, I think so.

Jason Thibeault said...

You'll want to read this. And then repent of your wicked ways.

Mike Haubrich said...

I have a hard time dealing with people who spend so little time learning about that which they criticize.

We care because we live in a world of "here and now" with no illusions that all will be fixed in a hereafter. We care what happens to children because rape is hurtful, damaging and painful for a lifetime.

As theists, you like to pass off the damage that the clergy do when they take advantage of their god-given authority to hide and protect the rapists among their number. This is all the more henous because of the theist "moral superiority," much claimed and ballyhooed but rarely demonstrated.

Morality is easy to explain without resort to a creator. I'll leave you to do the work, should take all of but a few hours of searching on Google university.

And do follow the link that Jason left. The story is painful to read, and very revealing about "love,"

Anonymous said...

Chances are, you know a few atheists and don't even know it. Chances are, you've broken more than just one commandment in your life. Chances are, you have acquaintances with higher moral standards than you who are far less religious than you claim to be.

Quite frankly, faith has very little bearing on morality. You would do well to learn that before you continue to spout poison or "(...) bear false witness against your neighbor" again.

For the record: 1) Yes I went to Church for many years. 2) No, I don't believe in God. 3) Yes, I do feel that my children should learn many of the lessons of the New Testament (regardless of the source of their learning) not because right and wrong comes from the Bible but because they are important life lessons no matter what you believe.

Peter said...

Hello everyone. Unfortunately I can't debate five of you at once, especially not when I also have to read that very long post that Jason suggested.

I did want to make one point, namely, that I don't believe in ad hominems or that the debate concerning atheism vs. theism can be solved by examining the people who adhere to these positions. I think that the debate can be resolved by looking at the actual positions (atheism or theism) themselves. Both theists and atheists are guilty of hypocrisy and immoral behavior.

Anyways, I responded in a new post above.

Also, you'll see I have an open comment policy here and I allow anonymous comments. Atheists and theists alike are free to share their thoughts.

Ok, now it's time for me to go have a beer.

Edward said...

Atheists do not believe in an "afterlife." The only afterlife that exists is in our children. If you believe that pedophilia is harmful to children, then as an atheist it is your duty to stop it.